The Bow Problem

JD Dart June 13, 2014 12 Comments » Share

eso-archer

 

THE BOW PROBLEM

So the bow skill tree sucks, I love my bow and the passives are great but it just doesn’t compare to other weapons when it comes to abilities, especially when used with certain classes such as oh I don’t know maybe freaking nightblades!! As is well known the bow/nightblade/medium armour combo is currently very painful to play, now I like my medium armour and bow but it is just damn near impossible to quest in veteran content with that build due to lack of crowd control, interrupts and damage. It is though a lot of classes/weapons weren’t designed to be used outside of grouping. Now I just wouldn’t feel right if I didn’t specify what my problem with which ability is and how I would fix it, so here is exactly that thing I just said.

Interrupts

Problem:
First off the biggest problem I have with bow (especially when it comes to questing) is interrupts, the only way for me to interrupt a spell cast is to either be at melee range (making the long shots passive redundant) or to morph poison arrow. Even with the venom arrow morph however interrupting can still be difficult due to poor resource management with certain classes, Nightblade specifically.

To often I have gone up against a quest boss that I need to interrupt that also summons adds and even with stamina well overcharged trying to block, use scatter shot and interrupt will burn through stamina much faster than the boss and adds die not only leaving me defenceless but also unable to attack. On top of that having the only ranged interrupt in a morph for the poison arrow skill more or less forces players into selecting it which renders the other morph of poison injection obsolete.

Fix:
Its simple, we kill the batm…. wait sorry no, try that again *Ahem* Its simple, just like melee hitting both mouse buttons interrupts, can make it so you shoot a blunt arrow that smacks the caster in the face or something, this would not give bow any kind of special advantage that melee uses don’t already have but would both make interrupts easier and free up poison arrow for some better morph options, speaking of…

Poison Arrow

Problem:
As pointed out players are pretty much forced into using the Venom Arrow morph which is probably why no one bothered making Poison Injection less useless. Don’t get me wrong an extra bit of DoT damage is nice but only effecting targets under 35% health makes it pointless on anything other than bosses. Trash mobs and other players in PvP are only a move or two away from death at 35% health so in reality that little bit of extra DoT isn’t going to do a whole lot.

Fix:
Now there is a couple of things here that could be done, first off with giving bow an interrupt Venom Arrow can be changed, what I would LOVE to see is an option to make it use mana instead of stamina to help with better recourse management but even just something like having it do fire/burning damage instead would still be OK. As for poison injection just remove the 35% thing, make the DoT last longer or even make it shorter in exchange for more damage.

Volley

Problem:
The mobs don’t stay in the circle, the low damage this move does would be bearable if the mobs would at least stay in it. Is fine when you are in a group with a tank but then the low damage becomes and issue and your butt gets dumped for a DK or Sorc.

Fix:
Make this the bow wielders dark talons, mobs are stunned for a second or two when first hit, this would make questing, especially in vet content much, much more doable.

Arrow Spray

Problem:
For the moderate damage it does the stamina cost is insane, this would be the best move for fighting multiple mobs while questing solo with the slow and all but even with overcharged stamina you can only get a couple of shots off before you are potting and recharging resulting in not being able to dodge and block the very unhappy mobs now charging towards you.

Fix:
Reduce the stamina cost.

Snipe

Problem:
It take to damn long, 3 seconds + arrow travel time renders this move only useful for an opening attack or shooting jerks on keep walls.

Fix:
Reduce the cast time, 2 seconds at the most,

That is it, if you are reading this part then good for you, you made it. I don’t expect to see these exact things implemented but something similar would be great, just so long as the issues raised here are addressed in some form because right now my love for archery hurts.

12 Comments

  1. LaughingJack September 15, 2014 at 10:38 pm

    well my Templar Archer is using Poison Arrow and Draining Shot, and i dont seem to be having too much trouble (from my POV anyway). ive got a bow of Poison and a bow of Pestilence(disease), both yellow level. i found Snipe and volley to be far too slow even though they do damage -for me, just don't work so well (or maybe im just more comfortable with using the others).

    my attack: crouched crit shot with the bow, followed by Fireballs till i run out of magika, then back to stamina stuff with Poison Arrow and Draining Shot(for some knock-backs, these are sooo handy, especially for defending other group members(or knocking nasties over cliffs ;-P ) and then normal Poison/Disease shots until i get low on stamina, then back to the Fireballs. the only times i really become unstuck is when i get hit with something that locks me down or stops me attacking, then im in a bit of strife. if its a healer/mender then i'll lob a heap of Poison/Disease shots into them, then the Fireballs, then back to the Special shots.

    biggest problem ive found so far is keeping the bow from straying to other targets, makes it very hard to hammer a magic user in a group.

  2. Val'anyr September 13, 2014 at 8:47 pm

    They need to revamp the bow or add a Stalker-Ranger-like class tree for everyone because they are really under-powered and not even useful as utility abilities. A buff to remove movement hindrance while firing for 15/20s, some kind of low-mana-consuming steady shot arrow for consistent damage. This is the whole reason I rerolled to a Templar healer because my NB was not performing well in the area I planned, I ended up tanking until I switched characters.

  3. hachibushu September 13, 2014 at 6:44 pm
    vallmier

    Now as far as I have read from ESO is that they have not yet done anything to balance out the NB's yet because they do see some things they are trying to work out to get them balance with everyone else. my one biggest request to them 3 months ago of all the questions I had was , we are NB's and should have a much longer lasting time on the Invis. only lasting 3 sec. is nothing and makes that ability totally useless in my book I never use it anymore cause it takes up a slot I could be using for something better.

    They came back (Developer) and said that was one thing they was looking into and didn't have any answer at the time and will be thinking about. if you stop and think about it in all mmo's like this our class has this ability and it is always the same thing, well here is a 3 second invis we hope you like it cause it is useless and won't help much. I amd for increasing it to 5-6 seconds because that isa vital part of your class it really is if you think about it. we are a stealth and slippery bunch so let us be such, since we are really not a stay and fight killer bunch we strike and run strike and run that is our best game against others.

    You do know you can recast, right? I've gotten through whole areas as a NB using cloak and recasting and managing my magicka. It's just not a fire and forget type of skill, which is different than other MMOs, but not necessarily bad, and that's the least of my concerns as a NB.

  4. vallmier September 13, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    I've played a NB since the Beta and have learned that 1. if your grouped with a friend/s as a NB is going to depend on what you use of have. Me and my roommate have been playing together since Beta and I play a NB and he plays a Healer. this combo works great we both together are now VR-12 and can take on any mob or up two players in pvp 3 is stretching it a bit but do able. As a NB alone I have to look at the situation I am going to get into and evaluate what is going to happen even before I get into a fight. I almost ALWAYS stop and see , being an open area camp or cave see what the mobs are and say ok I am going to use a bow and than I say now what do I need to use with it. This all comes down to, Are the mobs grouped up or are they in single forms. I find using a bow on group formed mobs is the best cause if you position yourself correctly you wont hit other or stray walkers and you will only hit the group you want. I will tend to always first se a spray and most of the time I will kill the group or have one with very little hp left and I can now just hit him with any arrow.

    I found that doing this works great but yes my Stamina will drain fast but if you can spray and shoot a normal arrow in between sprays those suckers will drop and be pinned from the start. I also find if you rely to much on any on type of arrow you will or could have problems. I also go with my back up if things get out of hand and that is by using my swords/axes. If a mob does get to close they come out and whoop ares comes out. I will always have whirlwind slotted cause it will do a lot of dmg or even the multi hits from the ability. Now as far as who you are grouped with yes I see that depends how well you know them, I am luck that who I play with we have been playing mmo's together since EQ Beta and we have always played the same like characters we are now playing and we work great together and know what to do without even saying a word to one an other and that is a rare match.
    I am not disagreeing with any of you I do see a lot of things that do need correcting but really if you stop and think about what your getting into before you get into it can help you a lot. I am not a pro I have just been playing ranger wood elf's and such for a very long time on a lot of games and I always see the very same thing on every type of this game, we are NB's or Rangers we are wood elf's if that's what you chose they have never been a favored class even though they should be one of the most feared classes in the game.

    I have seen how bad they tend to be the first to get Nerfed because so many people don't like what they are doing. When a lot of folks see that an NB is doing things that they can not beat them at they complain and well the NB will get nerfed and to the point that now there balance is all out of wack and they tend to struggle. So now what I do is stop and as I stated before, stop and evaluate the situation before I commit.
    Now as far as I have read from ESO is that they have not yet done anything to balance out the NB's yet because they do see some things they are trying to work out to get them balance with everyone else. my one biggest request to them 3 months ago of all the questions I had was , we are NB's and should have a much longer lasting time on the Invis. only lasting 3 sec. is nothing and makes that ability totally useless in my book I never use it anymore cause it takes up a slot I could be using for something better.

    They came back (Developer) and said that was one thing they was looking into and didn't have any answer at the time and will be thinking about. if you stop and think about it in all mmo's like this our class has this ability and it is always the same thing, well here is a 3 second invis we hope you like it cause it is useless and won't help much. I amd for increasing it to 5-6 seconds because that isa vital part of your class it really is if you think about it. we are a stealth and slippery bunch so let us be such, since we are really not a stay and fight killer bunch we strike and run strike and run that is our best game against others.

  5. RedSatyr June 15, 2014 at 7:43 am

    Poison Arrow

    Fix:
    Now there is a couple of things here that could be done, first off with giving bow an interrupt Venom Arrow can be changed, what I would LOVE to see is an option to make it use Magicka instead of stamina to help with better recourse management but even just something like having it do fire/burning damage instead would still be OK. As for poison injection just remove the 35% thing, make the DoT last longer or even make it shorter in exchange for more damage.

    ~I like that you're thinking outside the box, but honestly it'd be more than just a simple change to Magicka. The whole skill line's damage is based on Stamina. How wonky would it be if the ability used Stamina to increase damage and Magicka to cast it? Now, if you mean the damage AND cost be switched, then there'd be more (albeit only one if that is the ONLY skill that has it's cost/dmg bonus changed) skills that use Magicka and it'd cause imbalance. To be frank, I think the fix would have to be a bit more thought out, and a broader change overall to be effective.

    Volley

    Fix:
    Make this the bow wielders dark talons, mobs are stunned for a second or two when first hit, this would make questing, especially in vet content much, much more doable.

    ~Now this I could get on board with. Although, I do think they weren't intending Bow wielders to do more than snare and knockback. Actual rooting in place is for the Sorcs and DKs (i.e. class abilities rather than skill). Gotta keep in mind that they are balancing a more complex set up than most MMOs. Too many stuns on one build would feel too single type utility. They've got to spread them out between classes and weapon skills. I do like the idea though.

    Arrow Spray

    Fix:
    Reduce the stamina cost.

    ~I can't speak on this one much, I've never used it post beta. And when I did use it in the beta, it wasn't for very long.

    Snipe

    Fix:
    Reduce the cast time, 2 seconds at the most,

    ~I haven't unlocked this one just yet. But I'm looking to get it as a key ability to my build. I'll have to reserve my thoughts on this until I've experienced it.

    I do want to note that, though I've not made it to VR yet with my NB Ranger, I've been playing him a lot lately. My Bow seems to be my strongest weapon I use. When I switch to my 2H weapon, it's to level it up some of deal some good damage on a few squishies. Otherwise I'm trying to keep my distance from a melee NPC while taking out the squishy caster using my Bow. So, currently I'm not seeing the Bow as any less powerful than my 2H weapon. In fact, as per my play style, it's my main choice for a reason. And last I heard people were swearing by 2H weapons.

  6. Keihndeth June 14, 2014 at 10:05 am

    If you think Bow is bad, don't try dual-wield – it's even worse :P

  7. Liott June 14, 2014 at 1:20 am
    AussieDevil

    Couldn't agree more!

    Couldn't agree more!´Im a woodelf dragonknight still I need to get to meele range to interupt a spell cast that just blows dick
    i hate playing my character so i cancekd description on it
    give us at least a range spell to interupt with beside of knoick back
    it wont work against any boss or some mobs ^^

  8. Thorgrum June 14, 2014 at 1:20 am
    JD Dart

    I played with sorc bow for a bit and found it is hugely easier than NB, most of the issues I am having a good ol' bitch about are more to do with it being NB/Bow combo than bow itself

    I think that's really the key here that the bow dosent feel very complimentary to the nightblade. Its almost like your giving something up to use it, I always feel like on my NB that melee is a better option and I am working around the bow short comings. That said if you go into siphoning you can come up with some decent ranged rotations but I cant see it applicable beyond questing content.

  9. Kaleka June 14, 2014 at 1:17 am
    JD Dart

    I played with sorc bow for a bit and found it is hugely easier than NB, most of the issues I am having a good ol' bitch about are more to do with it being NB/Bow combo than bow itself

    ahh gocha ;)

    yeah I think the bow fits a lot better with a sorcerer though I've seen some good Templar builds too. Throw in some sweet passives from the vamp and bosmer trees and you have a nice little stalker on your hands :)

  10. JD Dart June 14, 2014 at 12:57 am
    Kaleka

    I have to say I disagree with you on a few points. I wield a bow though my build is quite different I admit. I'm a sorcerer and wear 5 med/2 light. I use a combo of bow, storm calling, dark magic, and vamp skills. I have to say I enjoy it very much. I love the sound of pew pew, zap, sizzle sizzle :)

    One of my favorite combos is scorched earth followed by magnum shot. Since the magnum shot does a knock back and disorients it proves very effective in keeping the mobs where I want them so scorched earth can do it's job.

    I played with sorc bow for a bit and found it is hugely easier than NB, most of the issues I am having a good ol' bitch about are more to do with it being NB/Bow combo than bow itself

  11. Kaleka June 14, 2014 at 12:27 am

    I have to say I disagree with you on a few points. I wield a bow though my build is quite different I admit. I'm a sorcerer and wear 5 med/2 light. I use a combo of bow, storm calling, dark magic, and vamp skills. I have to say I enjoy it very much. I love the sound of pew pew, zap, sizzle sizzle :)

    One of my favorite combos is scorched earth followed by magnum shot. Since the magnum shot does a knock back and disorients it proves very effective in keeping the mobs where I want them so scorched earth can do it's job.

  12. AussieDevil June 14, 2014 at 12:05 am

    Couldn't agree more!

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